Out of the Blue: Denis Flageollet of De Bethune.

Independent watchmaking deity Denis Flageollet discusses tradition, motivation, commodification, and galvanising the next generation.

De Bethune’s DB25 GMT Starry Varius.

JOURNEYS IN ARTISTRY: As a fourth-generation watchmaker, what do you reckon your father, grandfather and great-grandfather would make of the extraordinarily innovative timepieces De Bethune produces?

DENIS FLAGEOLLET: Unfortunately, neither my father or grandfather are here anymore, but at the beginning, when I started out, my father definitely thought I was a bit crazy, when I was showing him the concepts that I was coming up with. That changed and my father started getting happier seeing the evolution of what I was doing.

My father was a bit envious, eventually. He said, “I wouldn’t have minded having the same opportunity you had, working with this advanced know-how, materials and expertise.” In France, where my father worked, watchmaking was quite conservative, whereas when I went to Switzerland, I was exposed to very advanced materials and techniques — my father became a bit envious when he saw the access I had to things he’d never seen before.

DB28XP Kind of Blue Tourbillon Sapphire.

De Bethune has taken out several categories at the prestigious Grand Prix d’Horlogerie de Geneve over the years, including wins for best tourbillon, chronograph, chronometry (precision) and the sought-after “Aiguille d’Or” for best timepiece of the year. What does recognition of that sort mean to you? Is that something that motivates you and drives you to innovate and excel?

If we were motivated by winning things, we wouldn’t win them. Our motivation is something much deeper than that. We give ourselves the challenge of building things slowly, we never think it’s good enough. If it gets a prize, yes, that makes us happy, but it’s not the reason we work. I was surprised the first time I won something.

For sure, it makes you happy when you win a prize but it is not at all one of my key objectives.

The DB28XP Steel Wheels.

What does motivate you, then?

With De Bethune, at the beginning, the goal was to bring something new, different — to add something to watchmaking, while respecting the amazing work that had come before, touching on all these different cultures that had influenced me.

For me, it felt significant to be starting De Bethune at the beginning of a new millennium.

I don’t like to talk of the ‘DNA’ of De Bethune. But by creating things little piece by little piece, eventually what’s happened is we’ve created this identity, always with the objective of adding something new to watchmaking. What we do, it can’t just be a remake of something else. So there’s always this idea of being first and making something new.

Do you consider what you do to be an art, a craft or a science?

It’s a bit of everything, watchmaking. You’re making a mechanism that is also artistic. It’s not just something that’s functional, but something that is artistic as well. And you’re making it yourself. My analogy would be, it’s like a sculptor who is making a piece of art, but there’s still a technical functionality behind it, which some would say is more scientific, more calculated, more thought through. What I’m trying to do is blend the two of these together — when I create something, I want it to look beautiful, but it also must function; it cannot be just functional or just beautiful, it has to be both.

A watch must balance science and technology, art and aesthetic beauty — and history as well.

DB28XP Kind of Blue.

What are your foremost concerns, beyond accuracy and beauty, when creating a new watch?

Comfort, legibility, and ease of use are the three key things we always think about. People often forget those aspects, because they’re so focused on other factors, whereas I always come back to this idea of comfort, legibility and the ease of use. You want people to feel at ease wearing the watch. And so I always ask myself those questions, whenever I’m designing a watch. It is no use having a watch that is incredibly sophisticated, complicated, but nobody knows how to use it. So those three things are paramount whenever I’m making a watch.

From art to classic cars, homes to jewellery, there are many valuable possessions that can be appreciated for their beauty and unique attributes, or merely seen as a store of value, an investment that will grow in value. How do you feel about your creations being both an emotional artistic creation, and a pragmatic investment or commodity?

It’s the way of the world, that art is a commodity. People may start off buying one of my watches because they think is going to be a great investment, like they buy art and real estate and everything else. But you never know, there might be one in the 10 or 100 of these people who one day might just pick up the watch and feel something or decide they want to learn about this thing that they bought. And hopefully with those people, eventually over time, it will become what it was intended to be — appreciated and enjoyed for the creation that it is and not what it represents in value.

Money isn’t something I think about in the atelier. I’m concentrating on the craftsmanship.

I don’t think about what’s going on outside of the workshop, the outside noise of people talking about value and things like that — I’m so focused on the craftsmanship and being present in that moment, creating new watches, that I don’t really hear too much of that noise.

DB28XP Meteorite.

Now, having thoroughly mastered your craft, do you find it fulfilling to be sharing those skills? Why is it important to you to impart your savoir-faire to the next generation of watchmakers and encourage them to move watchmaking forward, as you’ve done?

For several years now I’ve realised I need to pass on the knowledge I have, not just to train new watchmakers for De Bethune, but to share what I know with a larger audience, to share my experiences to the world, to share my knowledge but also to spark those questions, for younger watchmakers. I wrote a book which I hoped would inspire up-and-coming watchmakers. It’s quite difficult when you’re trying to guide them, but you also really hope that they can keep their minds open to possibilities and not become stuck in a rut, too focused on just doing one type of thing. A big problem with watchmaking is that people sort of perfect one thing or they only work on one thing for years and years.

I encourage young watchmakers to keep an open mind and see what else you can do that would actually advance watchmaking, that would actually have an impact on it by making a change rather than just following what has been done before. I love talking to young independent watchmakers to see whether they have that spark inside them, that passion that will allow them to really grow their vision of what watchmaking can be.

DB25 Starry Varius Aerolite.

What’s the most valuable nugget of wisdom you tend to offer these rising watchmakers?

The advice I often give them is, sometimes you have to be brave, you have to be bold. If you think you’ve got an idea, but it’s maybe a bit of a crazy idea, or it’s a bit leftfield, just go and do it. The only way you’re going to know is to try it, and then see what the world thinks. It could be the next great idea. I’m always trying to encourage them to just trust their instincts, follow this idea they’ve had, take it all the way.

You shouldn’t be scared on not being understood, maybe they’ll understand you in ten years’ time — or after you’re dead!

The most important thing is that they do what they believe in and what they were passionate about. Whenever I meet young watchmakers, I always encourage them to take that leap of faith, take a gamble, try and do something that they believe in because that ultimately is what’s going to make them happy, not just doing things like they were done before. I’m hoping that I can encourage these younger watchmakers to achieve more than I ever have — I’d love to see that.